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Judge will allow testimony that Michael Jackson previously molested five boys; victims said to include Macaulay Culkin, noted choreographer |
MARCH 28–In a significant legal setback for Michael Jackson, a judge ruled today that Santa Barbara prosecutors can present jurors with evidence that the performer previously molested five young boys.
Judge Rodney Melville’s bombshell decision came after a two-hour hearing during which Santa Barbara District Attorney Tom Sneddon outlined several separate “prior bad acts” that investigators sought to present to the 12-member Superior Court jury.


Ruling from the bench after the hearing, Melville told a packed courtroom that he will allow prosecutors to present testimony that Jackson previously molested five boys, including actor Macaulay Culkin (pictured right) and choreographer Wade Robson (pictured left). That evidence, Melville ruled, is admissible to show a pattern of “grooming” on the entertainer’s part.
While Melville denied a government request to present testimony about two other boys, he ruled that prosecutors will be allowed to introduce evidence about a pair of financial settlements entered into by Jackson with two of the prior accusers (though Melville said that the D.A. is precluded from mentioning the settlement amounts).
Testimony about the prior incidents will come from one of the alleged victims (the son of a former Neverland Ranch maid) and eight third-party witnesses, according to Melville’s ruling. That witness list includes the ex-maid, another former Neverland household employee, ex-Jackson assistant Bob Jones, former security guard Ralph Chacon, and the mother of Jordan Chandler, the California boy who first leveled abuse charges against the King of Pop in 1993 (and who settled a related civil lawsuit for more than $15 million).
Melville’s decision appears to reflect his belief that admission of the prior incidents, none of which resulted in criminal charges against Jackson, would not serve to unfairly buttress the current case, which centers on allegations that the performer molested a Los Angeles boy, now 15, in early 2003.
The ruling is Melville’s tacit acknowledgment that Sneddon’s current case is not nearly as wobbly as Jackson lawyer Thomas Mesereau claims it to be, and that prosecutors would not improperly benefit from the introduction of “propensity” material allowed under California law. Section 1108 of the state’s Evidence Code (an amendment signed into law in 1996) allows testimony about alleged prior bad acts so long as its usefulness is not outweighed by any potential prejudicial effect on a jury.
As a result of Melville’s decision to admit so-called 1108 evidence, jurors will now weigh the 2003 molestation allegations in the light of other troubling charges from Jackson’s past. This is, of course, especially crucial in light of the multimillion dollar settlement deals. While not admissions of guilt, details of these decade-old agreements–Chandler’s deal and a $2 million settlement with the maid’s son–could prove devastating.

Melville’s decision came after a remarkable hearing during which Sneddon offered a detailed recitation of what he said was Jackson’s history of sexually abusing boys. Having investigated the singer for 12 years, Sneddon offered up the fruits of that lengthy pursuit, charging that Jackson’s pedophilia was borne out by a variety of illicit acts, including:
* One “prior child,” Sneddon said, will testify to three separate instances during which his genitals were touched by Jackson. On two occasions, the child was fondled outside his clothes, and once the singer “thrust” his hands inside the boy’s pants. The witness in question is the son of Blanca Francia, the former Neverland Ranch maid. The woman and her son, now 24, received a $2 million legal settlement from Jackson in 1994 (and both were included on the prosecution’s list of potential trial witnesses).
* Sneddon said that he had a witness who would testify that, on three occasions, they saw Jackson in bed with different children and “that the child and the defandant’s underpants were lying next to the bed.”
* Witnesses, Sneddon told Melville, would testify to five incidents involving four children (ages 10-13) who were kissed and/or inappropriately touched in the genitals by Jackson.
* Two witnesses will testify that they heard Jackson encourage children to call him “Daddy,” which echos claims by the current accuser and his family members.
* One witness told probers of seeing the entertainer lick the head of a young boy. The incident mirrors a claim from the current molestation case (the accuser’s brother and mother have both told investigators that they saw Jackson lick the accuser’s head while the boy slept during a 2003 flight from Miami to Santa Barbara).
In arguing for admission of such evidence, Sneddon said that Jackson has long shown a proclivity for illicit behavior with young boys the entertainer considers “special friends.” He noted that Jackson’s grooming of young boys often included the purchase of gifts for a child’s mother, so as to keep the parent preoccupied while he frolicked with the minor.
After Sneddon’s 40-minute presentation, Mesereau told Melville that the D.A.’s case so far has been a weak one, riddled with repeated lies and contradictions from the alleged victim and his two siblings. Testimony about uncharged behavior, Mesereau (pictured right) said, would only serve to prop up Sneddon’s case. Noting that prosecutors had yet to call the victim’s mother to the witness stand, Mesereau asked that Melville delay his decision on the introduction of prior bad acts testimony until the woman testifies. Referring to how Sneddon’s case has been unfolding, Mesereau remarked, “Every time they put on a witness, it gets worse.”
Jackson’s lawyer then went into a point-by-point attack of the old material Sneddon sought to introduce. With the exception of Chandler and the maid’s son, the other five boys allegedly molested by Jackson have all repeatedly denied being abused by the performer, Mesereau said. Additionally, since Chandler is not going to testify, Mesereau said, jurors would only hear direct testimony from one of the seven boys prosecutors claim Jackson sexually abused.
Mesereau said that many of the third-party witnesses Sneddon would call to testify about the prior abuse were tabloid informants, disgruntled former employees, and money-hungry litigants. He specifically mentioned a group of former Neverland workers who sued Jackson for wrongful termination and were routed in court (in fact, they lost a countersuit brought by Jackson and were hit with a seven-figure legal judgment, which drove some into bankruptcy).
Testimony about the alleged prior incidents–most of which date back more than a decade–would be incredibly time consuming, Mesereau said, adding that “all is fair game” when it came to examining the motivations of the third-party witnesses. Mesereau specifically mentioned how Francia sold her story to a television tabloid show, but then later disavowed her TV claims during a sworn deposition.
Before Melville called a short break, Mesereau again mentioned the accuser’s mother, saying, “The best is yet to come because the mother has not yet testified.” He added, “I submit it (the government’s case) looks real bad, and it’s gonna get worse.”
- February 11, 2003
- 80 comments
The Smoking Gun has copies of previously secret court papers of the 1993 court case against Michael Jackson. WARNING! There are detailed descriptions of what went on between Jackson and the then 13 year old boy. Only read it if you have a strong stomach.
After reading them, I don’t know how Michael Jackson didn’t get jail time. Actually, I do know. He’s a famous superstar who has hundreds of millions of dollars. The relationship the kid describes looks innocent enough until after several months. Then things go completely wrong. Michael Jackson has SEVERE problems and should get serious help. Superstar or not, he should be in jail and listed in the pedophile database. It’s sick. Sad and sick.
I fear that the word that is randy’s first name may also apply to michael jackson after a couple of coke cans of wine. I’m going to err on the side of decency and suggest that the fact that randy wouldn’t abuse a child has blinded him to the fact that others might do so. Of course being odd doesn’t automatically make a person a paedophile.
Michael Joe Jackson’s “oddness” was at one time, long, long ago a refreshing change from the other prima-donna, drug addicted, sexually promiscuous musical star types, but today Michael is far beyond just being odd now he is?
I agree with the comment that being “odd” is not reason alone to be labeled a pedophile, or a criminal, but in today’s sleazy celebrity world of legal contracts between stars and their mistresses, prostitutes, and drug prescribing personal Doctors, anything’s unfortunately possible. Remember the rumor regarding Tom Cruise’s two past marriages as being set-up to protect him and hide his true Homosexuality? (Both marriages lasted almost 10 years each)
Who really knows (outside of Michael and every child who’s ever accused him) if he really has molested any child, but I for one am so sick and tired of hearing about it everywhere I look and having this latest accusation being decided outside of the Courts. Let’s let our Legal System do it’s thing and run it’s systematic course. The “truth” should not only come out, but either an innocent man will be cleared or a child abuser will finally received his just punishment!
It’s interesting, Michael Jackson must really, really like young boys to risk losing everything to continue to have sexual relationships with them. He’s actually compulsive about it.. Why can’t he just start screwing around with the male species when they reach 18 years old? That’s still pretty young. Maybe all pedophiles are out of control like this or maybe he just thinks that he can get away with it because he’s got so much money. Probably it’s a little of both but mostly the latter. I think that Michael Jackson should get help for his problem and some punishment, yes, but not the full 20 years in prison. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t excuse him for his actions or feel particularly sorry for him in any way, but 20 years in prison is harsh (especially for wispy MJ) and not particularly constructive. Why not register the spoiled brat as a pedophile, don’t ever let him be with children alone, take away his Neverland ranch/boy trap, give him a few years in jail and force him to go into intensive therapy (group and individual) for his pedophilia and issues from childhood. God, it makes me sick. He’s probably going to get away with this cuz he’s rich and black and famous. What a bunch of bullshit. I go 5 minutes over on my break and am almost fired from my job. Now that is fair. And one more little thing, I think it is just bizarre that people are actually supporting MJ as being innocent. It’s shined up crystal clear that this guy is a pedophile. Get over it and move on ya celebrity barnacles.
paedophilia goes on because people let it. and saying wait until they are 18 is no solution, i was 5 foot 6 when i turned 18 and i am 6 foot 1 now i am 23. never was the difference between a man and a boy so distinct. happily now i am fully grown i get less offers from dodgy large men. don’t get me wrong, i am very happy for elton john and david furnish, i just feel the difference between homosexuality and paedophilia needs to be spelt out.
yeah the guy is a pedo for sure, the most disgusting kind..what is with all these jackobots that like think hes innocent? please let there be a god and not let this guy off… heres a good definition…
Ephebophilia (in Greek ‘ephebos’ έφηβος = teenager and ‘philia’ φιλία = friendship), also known as hebephilia, is the condition in which an adult is dependent on sexual attraction to adolescents. It is a chronophilia, i.e. belongs to a group of paraphilias of the stigmatic or eligibilic type in which the paraphile’s sexuoerotic age is discordant with his or her actual chronological age and is concordant with the age of the partner. Pederasty
reasons why he is a pedo/freak;
1..guy PUBLICALLY admits that he shares his bed with young boys, AND calls it a thing of beauty…is somehow able to justify this because of his effiminate/’naive’ nature…
2. 46 yr old black male admits he thinks hes peter pan with a straight face…
3. collects chimps, bones from the elepahant man, has a ranch called ‘neverland’ to lure in the kiddies…
4. pet names for kids not related to him, like apple head and blow hole? its just a hop n step away from hands down the pants from there…
5. the richest pedo on earth for sure… and those kids are the most highly paid prostitutes then…theres no doubt the guy did it man, have you seen those kids? theyre all very good looking, wouldnt want to molest a kid who wasnt cute would ya? sicko jacko… sorry even with the weirdo accusers mom, the rest of the story is just too ill…
The only comment I will make is that I strongly suggest people look at the evidence in FAVOR of Jackson. The media only cover the damaging, and irrelevent “evidence” against him, none of which has been substancial enough to convict him of any wrong doing. This whole trial is a media circus, there is striking evidence that Jackson did not molest that boy, yet it is never reported by the media, why? Because that would be “positive” and everybody knows the media hates anything that could be possibly positive yet true in nature. So lets watch who we call “disgusting” around here, shall we? Because the only thing disgusting is the media and these monsters Exploiting Jackson. I feel sorry for anyone who takes the media for gospal, I feel even sorrier for anyone who would take advantage of someone else for personal gain in such an heinous and evil way. And ya know what? I feel even sorriest for anyone who would come on a site like this who knows nothing but the irrelevent garbage the media spits without hearing the other side and sounds off about issues they know NOTHING about. There is a lot of sadness, and igorance. The media has accomplished it’s mission, and I mine. Have a nice, ignorant day…
Michael Jackson is 100% innocent. The prosecution’s case on the trial was none other than apawling and pathetic. It is now time for the defense to give their side, and Michael’s innocence will prevail in court.
I recommend that you follow the trial to a considerable amount of detail before you make such statements.
Think before you judge.
“odessa” eh? were you named after that frederick forsyth book “the odessa file” which uncovers the way SS members escaped from the crumbling nazi regime to latin america, and the way the high up posts in society were staffed by a lot of the same people during and after the 2nd world war? I doubt michael jackson’s 100% anything; after all the surgery he is a compound of various alloys not a single element
probably guilty of half of the allegations but no way all of them or none of them.
Michael Jackson is a pathetic, deranged figure. He is obviously gay, but he has, it appears, not contributed any money to AIDS research or AIDS patients. Instead, he pretends to be straight while wearing scarlet lipstick and seducing young boys. Also, he speaks like an infant—when he was briefly in police custody he referred to excrement as dooty; has made patently antisemetic statements about a cabal of Jews allegedly plotting to destroy him; and is bereft of intellectual, aesthetic or moral values.
He deserves prison and all the severity it can muster.
Also, his popularity is merely a sign of the debasement and stupidity of our insipid, vapid culture.
People I think that there are way to many strongly opinionated people out there. ME, being an avid fan of Michaels music and performances hope that he does not go to jail. But if it becomes obviously clear that he is a pedophile then he should be punished. At the moment however it is only one persons word against antoher. The fact the he speaks in a high voice makes no difference. Until a more reliable way of accusing Jackson, such as footage or recordings, are made there is no way he can get prosecuted as it is just one persons word against another.
BJ Hickwoman has an interesting site about Michael Jackson. He/She has a bit of a sense of humor about the whole Jackson thing, but is also honest about it all. My opinion, as already expressed, is that Jackson is guilty of everything he has been accused of.. I also am of the opinion that his fans and supporters are contributors to the problems that exist for children who are being sexually molested on a daily basis. The truth is, if you are not a part of the solution, you are a part of the problem, which means his fans and supporters are a part of the problem of child sexual molestation and NOT a part of the solution.
BJ Hickwoman’s website can be found at the following URL
Watch out overseas! Here he comes… guard your little ones! Sad to say we let a real wierdo loose… it kinda reminds you of the first Iraq war… “Tune into tomorrow soap fans, when MJ gets busted again in another country!” I suggest he get some help. He may not get off so easily this time.. By the way …hasn’t he been accused AGAIN since the trial? How many accusations does it take before people will listen?
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Friday May 27, 2005
Judge Rodney Melville ruled that prosecutors can show the jury in the Michael Jackson child molestation trial a 2003 videotape of his teenage accuser’s original police interview, but also ruled that the jury will not be allowed to see photographs of Jackson’s genitalia.
As the judge was making his decision on admitting the videotape, defense lawyers threatened to recall to the stand the accuser, his mother, a psychologist who interviewed the accuser, and the family’s former attorney, Larry Feldman.
Most courtroom observers believed the defense threat to recall the accuser and his mother to the stand was a bluff. The last thing the defense wants to do is appear they are beating up on the young former cancer victim, who also claims to be the victim in this case.
The jury has not heard from the teenager accuser since March, on the day that Jackson turned up for court wearing pajamas.
In another ruling, Judge Melville would not allow the prosecution to use evidence from the 1993 Jackson case. They wanted to show the jury a sketch the 1993 accuser made of Jackson’s genitalia and compare it to actual photographs to prove that the singer’s relationship to young boys is not casual.
Witness: Jackson Employees Feared For Safety
Michael Jackson’s defense team put on a series of witnesses to counter the testimony of prosecution witnesses about the conspiracy to keep his accuser’s family at Neverland Ranch, but one of the witnesses backfired on the defense.
When Detective Russell Birchim brought up allegations about the 1993 accuser, who was paid more than $20 million by Jackson in a settlement, it opened the door for the prosecution to explore details of the 1993 case.
Birchim testified under cross examination that two of Jackson’s former bodyguards told him in 1994 they they had information about Jackson fondling a young boy and performing oral sex on him, but they were afraid to come forward.
Kassim Abdul and Ralph Chacon told Birchim, he testified, that they would not come forward because they could not be guaranteed they could enter a witness protection program.
“They expressed concern for their own safety and that of their families,” Bircham said. Both Abdul and Chacon testified during the prosecution’s case.
1993 child sexual abuse accusations against Michael Jackson
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
In 1993, Michael Jackson was accused of abuse by Evan Chandler, on behalf of his then-13-year-old child, Jordan Chandler. Jackson and Jordan had become friends in May 1992, to the father’s disapproval and concern. The friendship became well known, as the tabloid media reported that Jackson became a member of the Chandler family unit. Under the influence of a controversial sedative administered by Evan Chandler, his son said that Jackson had touched his penis.[1][2] and engaged Jackson in unsuccessful negotiations to resolve the issue with a financial settlement.[3] Jordan Chandler then told a psychiatrist and later police that he and Jackson had engaged in acts of kissing, masturbation, and oral sex, as well as giving a description of what he alleges were the singer’s genitals.[4][3] Evan Chandler was tape-recorded threatening to damage the singer’s music career,
Jackson’s home, Neverland Ranch, was searched, even though other children and family members had stated that Jackson was not a pedophile. Jackson’s older sister, La Toya Jackson, accused her brother of being a pedophile, but later retracted her statement.[5] Jackson became dependent on drugs as the stress of the allegations mounted,[6][7] and canceled the remainder of his tour. He went into rehabilitationLisa Marie Presley. On his return to the US, Jackson agreed to a 25-minute strip search, which was required to see if the description of his genitals provided by Jordan Chandler was accurate. Doctors concluded that there were some strong similarities but it was not a definitive match. Jackson proclaimed his innocence, and criticized the media coverage. Jackson’s friends and legal advisers took over his defense and finances, persuading him to settle the allegations out of court. overseas, and began a relationship with
Tabloid reaction to the allegations were negative towards Jackson,[8] and complaints about the coverage included bias and accepting stories of criminal activity for money, and engaging in illegal activities themselves.[9] Public polls at the time reported that a large majority of people believed Jackson was innocent.[10] On January 1, 1994, Jackson settled a civil suit out of court with the Chandler family and their legal team for $22 million. Jordan Chandler refused to testify in the criminal proceedings, the state closed its criminal investigation citing lack of evidence, and Jackson was not charged with a crime. Jackson’s support amongst the public then began to waver, and Jackson’s own career and image was significantly damaged, which became a recurring theme in Jackson’s future music. Prosecution evidence from the 1993 allegations would also be used against the entertainer in the 2005 People v. Jackson child sexual abuse trial, where he was acquitted on all counts.[11][12]
Friendship, tape recording, allegations and negotiations
By the summer of 1993, it was revealed that Jackson allowed children to sleep over at his Neverland ranch, a fact which came under much media scrutiny when child sexual abuse[13][14] Jackson became firm friends with Jordan Chandler and his family after a meeting in May 1992, as he was a fan of Jackson.[9] Their friendship became so close that the National Enquirer ran a featured story with the title “Michael’s New Adopted Family”, which implied that Jackson had “stolen” the family from the father, Evan Chandler, who was admittedly jealous over Jackson’s influence on his son.[15] Communications between Jackson and the father broke down further when Chandler asked, “Look, are you having sex with my son?”. The father’s opinion of Jackson then changed, to the extent that he invited Jackson to build an extra wing on their home so that the singer could move in with them permanently.[15] Chandler’s concerns about the close friendship returned, and he tried to prevent Jackson from seeing his son, using a prior custody agreement.[9] allegations were brought against him.
On July 2, 1993, in a private telephone conversation, Chandler was tape recorded as saying,
“There was no reason why he [Jackson] had to stop calling me…I picked the nastiest son of a bitch I could find [Evan Chandler's lawyer, Barry Rothman], all he wants to do is get this out in the public as fast as he can, as big as he can and humiliate as many people as he can. He’s nasty, he’s mean, he’s smart and he’s hungry for publicity. Everything’s going to a certain plan that isn’t just mine. Once I make that phone call, this guy is going to destroy everybody in sight in any devious, nasty, cruel way that he can do it. I’ve given him full authority to do that. Jackson is an evil guy, he is worse than that and I have the evidence to prove it. If I go through with this, I win big-time. There’s no way I lose. I will get everything I want and they will be destroyed forever…Michael’s career will be over.”[2]
—Evan Chandler
In the same conversation, when asked how this would affect his son, Chandler replied, “That’s irrelevant to me…It will be a massacre if I don’t get what I want. It’s going to be bigger than all us put together…This man [Jackson] is going to be humiliated beyond belief…He will not sell one more record”.[2][2] The recorded conversation was a critical aspect of Jackson’s defense against the upcoming allegation made against him. He and his supporters argue that he was the victim of a jealous father whose only goal was to extort money from the singer.
In early August, Chandler, a registered dentist, extracted a tooth from his son’s mouth, and was later forced to admit that he used the controversial sedative sodium Amytal during the procedure.[1] Under the influence of the drug, Jordan alleged that Jackson had touched his penis. Experts state that the drug sodium Amytal “makes patients extremely susceptible to suggestions”.[1] Dr Lewis Strong, a Los Angeles psychiatrist stated, “You can’t trust it, I never use it in my practice. I have found it to be unreliable. It’s certainly not a truth serum“.[1] Dr Kenneth Gottlieb, a San Francisco psychiatrist who has used the drug, stated, “I would never want to use a drug that tampers with a person’s unconscious unless there was no other drug available, and I would not use it without resuscitation equipment in case of allergic reaction”.[1]
Over the next couple of months both parties engaged in unsuccessful (out of court) financial negotiations, with Chandler and his legal team asking for $20 million, or the issue would be taken to criminal court.[3] Jackson declined the offer, saying, “No way in Hell”. A few weeks later, Jackson’s legal team gave a counter-offer to the value of $1 million, which was declined by Chandler.[3] The father then lowered his request to $15 million; Jackson rejected this and lowered his original counter-offer to $350,000. With both sides unable to reach an agreement, Chandler decided he would take it to court.[3] Chandler then took his son to see a psychiatrist called Dr. Mathis Abrams, and during the three-hour session with the doctor, Jordan Chandler said he had had a sexual relationship with Jackson that included incidents of kissing, masturbation and oral sex that went on for months.
– He then repeated these allegations to police and gave a detailed description of what he alleged was Jackson’s penis.
Allegations made public, investigation and La Toya Jackson
On August 18, the Los Angeles Police Department’s Sexually Exploited Child Unit began a criminal investigation into Jackson. The same day, Jordan Chandler’s mother told police that she did not believe Jackson had molested her son.[4]
[13][14][16] On August 21, a search warrant was issued, allowing police to search Jackson’s Neverland Ranch. Police questioned 30 children who were friends of Jackson, with all denying that the singer was a child molester.[13][16] A police officer involved in the investigation told The Los Angeles Times that no evidence (medical, photographic or video) could be found that would support a criminal filing.[16] The same day the allegations were made public, Jackson began the second leg of his Dangerous World Tour in Bangkok. On August 24, Jackson’s investigator held a press conference accusing Chandler of trying to extort $20 million from the singer, although the investigator failed to mention that Jackson had given several counter-offers.[13][16] On August 25, Jackson’s young friends Brett Barnes and Wade Robson held a press conference where they stated that they had slept in the same bed as Jackson, but nothing sexual in nature had occurred.
[8][17] Jackson’s family soon held a press conference of their own to show support, saying it was their “unequivocal belief that Michael has been made a victim of a cruel and obvious attempt to take advantage of his fame and wealth.”[8][17] The police then began an investigation into Evan Chandlers’s prior actions and found that he was $68,400 behind in his child support payments, even though he was well-paid as a dentist.[9] On November 8, police searched the jackson family home, Hayvenhurst, but found nothing of importance to add to their investigation.
In the winter of 1993, despite not seeing or speaking to Jackson for a number of years, La Toya Jackson claimed that her brother was a pedophile and that she had proof, which she was prepared to disclose for a fee of $500,000. A bidding war between US and UK tabloids began, but fell through when they realized that her revelations were not what she had claimed them to be.[5] Then in Israel, she stated, “I cannot and will not be a silent collaborator in his crimes against young children… Forget about the superstar, forget about the icon. If he was any other 35-year-old man who was sleeping with little boys, you wouldn’t like this guy”.[5] She also claimed that checks had been made out to several boys and that Jackson’s own physical abuse as a child had turned him into an abuser.[5][18] She would later claim that Jackson had tried to kidnap and kill her.[18] The rest of the family disowned her, and in subsequent years she would insist that she was forced to make the allegations by her then husband for financial gain.[5][19] By the turn of the millennium Jackson had forgiven his sister. Just prior to making the allegations, her husband was arrested for striking her in the face, arms and legs with a chair.
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July 6, 2009 at 7:09 am |
MJ will rule our hearts forever. He will remain the King of Pop. May his soul rest in peace. Nice blog. Keep it up the good work
July 6, 2009 at 2:33 pm |
Thank you for the accolades on my piece on MJ as a pedophile. I personally, hope that God will have forgiven him for his interfering with children, that his soul may rest in peace. If he became born again before he died, then he will be in heaven, being born of the Spirit. But if he slipped away into the next realm without having been born again, he will be in pain & torment for the rest of his eternal life. We will know in the end.
Andrew Friedman